Too many dudes are creeps who don't know how to act right

"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein) 01/05/2016 at 13:30 • Filed to: None

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Fair warning: I’m a guy who is about to go full (or maybe 3/4) Jezebel up in this post. Last night, I had an experience on my way out the door from the gym, that has me seriously disappointed in the male gender.

I’m that guy at my gym who’s often the last one there before they close for the night, at 10 pm. Usually I try to get out of there by 9:45 but sometimes if I get too late of a start on my workout, I leave right at 10, and every once in a long while I don’t get out until a few minutes past 10, but I feel really guilty about keeping people there past 10.

Last night as I was leaving at 10:04 , the girl who works at the desk thanked me for being there late so often, because she feels safer if she’s not all alone in a big empty gym. I told her, “here I was thinking, ah shit it’s 10 already and I still need to change.” But she said it’s totally fine because she’s usually cleaning around that time anyway, and while she can close up a little early if nobody’s around, she worries if someone might wander in, so she really likes having me around.

Now, I’ve done absolutely nothing special here. I’m not saying this like, “I’m so awesome, my mere presence in a building makes women feel safer. ” Because that would be stupid. But her saying this stuck with me.

Picture in your mind for a moment, a news headline that says LOCAL MAN SAVES GYM EMPLOYEE FROM WOULD-BE RAPIST. Then think of who this guy might be. Maybe he’s built like Clay Matthews, and upon hearing the scream of the gym counter girl, he calmly puts down the 350 lb barbell he was squatting, sprints across the gym, makes a perfect NFL form tackle on the rapist, chokes him out, then sits on his chest while the gym girl calls 911 and waits for the cops to arrive.

I am not that guy. Nope, not in the slightest. I’m a goofy nerd who goes to the gym a lot. Here I am taking a selfie in a JCPenney dressing room, because I wanted to make fun of other people who take selfies in JCPenney dressing rooms .

So yeah, I bought that shirt, because my slightly above-average sized arm muscles look kinda good in it. But I don’t for a second believe that when most women think about being alone and scared and wishing for someone else to be around in case some creepazoid shows up, that they picture my goofy mug walking in and saving the day.

I can promise you that even though I wear contacts to the gym, exchanging my glasses for my bluetooth headphones does not make me look any more intimidating. When it comes to being a protector of people, I’m nobody special.

I’m disappointed in the world that a 20-something girl working the night shift at a gym in a sleepy suburb of Madison, WI doesn’t feel safe there if it’s dark out and she’s alone.

It’s not like my gym is in a high crime area.

Madison is the kind of city where crime is so low, the police department’s public information officer is a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for writing goofy descriptions of odd crimes. This is a city where people feel so safe that they leave their cars parked on their residential streets unlocked, and garage doors open, and the cops have to periodically send out news bulletins reminding people, oh hey maybe you want to lock your cars and close your garages up just in case someone decides to steal something.

But I got home from the gym, shared this conversation I had with my gf, and her response was, “well yeah, I think about that kind of stuff all the time.”

If there’s anywhere that women should be able to go about their daily routine and feel safe in the belief that they will not be harassed, followed, or assaulted, it’s Madison. But this girl doesn’t, and my gf doesn’t, and this bothers the shit out of me.

This makes me disappointed in the male gender. Obviously there’s enough creepy dudes out there that women feel threatened on a regular basis. I mean, the gym girl feels safer just because my nerdy ass is in the building, and she doesn’t even really know me! I’m just some guy who works out late at night and says hi and bye to her, occasionally makes smalltalk for a minute, sanitizes equipment he uses and re-racks weights like a respectable gym customer, and is generally is not an asshole.

So, I don’t have any good solution here. I have no grand declaration to make. I’m just disappointed and frankly, beyond my continuing attempts to be a decent human being, I’m not sure there’s much else I can do. And that’s pretty unfortunate.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 13:37

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who takes selfies in JCPenny’s? It’s all about Bloomingdales or just anywhere with a full length mirror (I’m that guy). I’d post a picture but I already outted myself as that guy

On a more serious note, men are scum bags (take no offense to all Oppo’s of the male gender), but...it’s a common thing these days. You can’t do much to change everybody’s perception, but if you can help out the 1 or 2 people in your everyday life, that’s still something

Party-vi > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 13:39

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#Friendzoned

ETA: I can’t wait to read all the self-aggrandizing, circle-jerkery, “men are all terrible except me” none-stinky-shittery of a comment section this will be.

Nibby > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 13:39

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I know so many girls, from friends to family members who have gotten catcalled in NYC.... to the point one of my friends made a game about it. It’s pretty fun. (the game)

Rainbow > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 13:40

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I strongly agree. I’ve been trying to distance myself from association with other guys because they just embarrass me. And I realize that’s really not fair at all. Obviously, people aren’t inherently bad based on their genitalia. But it’s so strange that virtually no women are creepy and rapey, while it seems almost as if the majority of men are. Granted, a lot don’t realize it... And that’s just... scary.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 13:41

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You better check your white, male, cis-gender, heterosexual privilege... Sorry, just trying to make it feel more like Jez.

On a more serious note, though, what always bothers the shit out of me is hearing that, what is it, 1 in every 3 women is sexually assaulted at some point? I have a wife, a mother, a sister, hell that’s 3 women that are close to me right there. As far as I know none of them have been sexually assaulted... unless they aren’t telling me something. Maybe they aren’t. Holy shit. That really bothers the crap out of me, because maybe they really aren’t saying anything. Or maybe it’s luck they haven’t been assaulted. Or haven’t been yet. But that means the next woman I see probably has been, statistically anyways.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 13:43

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men are all terrible except me

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 13:43

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But what if I really am that guy who’s not terrible? What then?

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 13:45

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It’s one of those situations where I don’t know if instances of sexual assault are actually any higher than before, or if they are just now reported more frequently along with the fact that we have greater access to stories around the world about these kinds of things.

I’m sure in your case it’s about seeing a familiar face who just happens to be a decent guy (I’m assuming you are) and even if you aren’t built like a football player you’re probably of reasonable strength if you work out frequently.

In any case, I suppose it’s up to decent guys to just continue being decent. It’s easy to believe stuff like this happens so often when we read about it so much more frequently than before, and with internet media, it’s not always accurate or even true (not playing down real cases of sexual assault, just how it’s reported).

I also just realized you’re the shoe guy that I end up talking with on here every now and then, so I unashamedly took a second look at your photo: nice kicks.

DrJohannVegas > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 13:46

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m’party.

Party-vi > Snuze: Needs another Swede 01/05/2016 at 13:46

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Impossible. All men are scum, especially the ones that proclaim their relative non-terribleness.

DrJohannVegas > Snuze: Needs another Swede 01/05/2016 at 13:47

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Keep doing that.

DrJohannVegas > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 01/05/2016 at 13:47

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I beg to differ.

Bytemite > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 13:48

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Well, what can you or anyone else do? Whether or not there are actual rapists out there in Madison, WI does not make any difference. The women’s fear comes from the over-consumption of media.

What does media portray? The most news-worthy material. Meaning we all see and hear about crimes and rapes and things that are unlikely to happen to us. Think about the way parents behave nowadays, too scared to let their 10 year old kids play in the neighborhood park. Now think about what our parents let us do when we were 5. Did the world become so much more dangerous in 20 years? No. It has actually become much safer.

Did the avenues in which we can view and read about crime and violence increase? Hell yes. Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Yahoo, amateur news, clickbait sites, etc. Your girlfriend and the gym employee is not in any more danger than they would have been 20 years ago. They are just more aware of what could happen, but it still does not make it likely .

Anyways, you are just a normal dude who is there to mind your own business so calm down and carry on. If they want to fear for their lives everywhere they go, then that is their problem to address, not yours. And if you are an actual rapist or someone meaning to harm others, well then, that is your problem to address.

DrJohannVegas > Snuze: Needs another Swede 01/05/2016 at 13:49

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Here’s another average you should know. Most assaults are committed by someone the victim ALREADY KNOWS.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 13:50

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Come on, bro: we know this is all about your guns.

You can accomplish a bunch in the world with even less effort than you made: just a smile and a kind word. Next time you’re in line with a struggling cashier, just think, It could be worse; that could be ME working behind that register .

Snuze: Needs another Swede > DrJohannVegas 01/05/2016 at 13:50

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Yeah, I’ve heard that one as well. Really makes you think...

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 13:51

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Yep, thit’s fucked up.

HammerheadFistpunch > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 13:52

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In her defense, there is a probably a higher likelihood of dangerous creepers who she might encounter at a gym than other places. Gyms are, in a technical sense, confidence inducing chemical factories and couple that with other factors means that a person is likely to feel more empowered and feel less restricted by internal dialog/inhibitions than at other places. Not saying she deserves to feel afraid, only that there probably is some credibility to the fear of attack based on an increased probability strong chemical meddlings and personality types.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Rainbow 01/05/2016 at 13:54

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even the very few dudes I associate with occasionally whip out (metaphorically) misogynistic statements and points of view on a disturbing basis. And you’re right, they don’t even realize it, and that’s the scary part.

Party-vi > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 01/05/2016 at 13:54

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I know first-hand that you are the most terrible of men.

Bytemite > Rainbow 01/05/2016 at 13:54

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Wait, you think the majority of men are rapey and/or creepy?

Either you hang around some very particular group of men, or you are letting prejudice blind your judgment.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 13:56

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is this because I didn’t give you food?

Rainbow > Bytemite 01/05/2016 at 13:56

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I don’t really think so. It can’t be that high, but it’s definitely a huge amount.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 13:56

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I'm terrible, just in a non-rapey way.

Party-vi > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 01/05/2016 at 13:58

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Party-vi > gin-san - shitpost specialist 01/05/2016 at 13:58

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Gold star for you.

Xyl0c41n3 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 01/05/2016 at 13:59

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One in five women will be raped or sexually assaulted in her lifetime. Most rapes and sexual assaults are committed by a person known to the survivor. Only 1 out of 100 rapists will spend even one day in jail for a sex-related crime.

So, yes, you DO know a woman who has been. It might not be a member of your immediate family, though.

For instance, there’s one woman I know who was sexually assaulted (possibly raped). I’m the only person who knows about it. None of the men in her immediate family know about it.

Instead of making it about you (“Holy shit. That really bothers the crap out of me, because maybe they really aren’t saying anything.”) maybe focus on the problem itself: rape culture.

The reasons women may not come forward, even to their own family members, are many. And you don’t have any right to demand that information from them or expect them to tell you about it. Because, and it’s dumb that this even needs to be said: this isn’t about you.

Xyl0c41n3 > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:01

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There’s already a couple. Oh lordy lord. I do not envy your position today, Party-vi.

Godspeed.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:04

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I’m so sorry :(. Her family ate a lot, then her and I ate the rest

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Snuze: Needs another Swede 01/05/2016 at 14:05

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That statistic is kind of bunk and based off of one school year at one school and relied on alot of assumptions. It was also 1 in 5 have experienced assault or an attempted assault . I forget where the 1 in 3 came from specifically, but it was in the study and based on an assumption and not meant to be cited as a fact but what could be possible. It was also pretty broad in its definition of assault which included unwelcome kisses (come on, who hasn’t misread signals and accidentally kissed someone who wasn’t into it after all?), sex the woman wouldn’t have had if she weren’t drunk (at a college campus? Jeez, how many men are rape victims if drunk sex on campus aided by beer goggles is assault?), or sex that they regreted later (yay! Bad sex!). I’m sure the real figures are alarmingly high, but I just hate seeing that number thrown around everywhere. When the president drops it in the SOTU without fact-checking, it’s getting stupid. Not saying that rape isn’t a problem or defending anyone. Just kind of wish people would stop using bad data as a key argument because it kind of undermines them and gives the opposition an argument.

BigBlock440 > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:07

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I think you’re way overthinking it. At my parents house, the cars are parked 30-50 feet from the door. Both my 2 sisters and my wife, if they are arriving after dark, literally sprint to the house. The house is in the middle of a 40 acre field, the nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away. There’s nobody hiding in the bushes. It has nothing to do with “men r kreeps”, there’s just comfort in numbers.

For Sweden > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:07

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I just can’t be friends with other guys because I’m a Cool Guy

yamahog > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:08

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We’re also raised to believe that if we *don’t* have that mild level of almost constant paranoia (carry your keys between your fingers, don’t be alone ever, don’t answer your door, don’t go anywhere after dark, have your phone ready to dial 911, carry pepper spray or a gun, don’t get in your car if someone’s still sitting in the ones next to it, lock your doors as soon as they close, dress like a nun, etc) we’re being reckless and therefore deserve anything that someone else decides to do to us.

When, sadly, we likely already know that someone, so the stranger danger bit isn’t as helpful as you’d think.

Mercedes Streeter > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:10

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I love posts like these here at Oppo. It always proves time and time again that Oppo is NOT your typical car community. We’re all humans, and most of us are really decent. Sadly, many upon many car communities completely and utterly fail at the latter.

Even more amazingly, how Oppo is so diverse and warmly welcoming to absolutely anyone, from LBGTQ+ to people who are halfway across the world with an entirely different culture.

It sucks that we live in a predatory society, but that’s kinda how it is. And sadly, women aren’t the only targets...it’s pretty much everyone. Black, white, male, female, trans, gay, etc...Literally everyone.

Mercedes Streeter > BigBlock440 01/05/2016 at 14:15

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I don’t think he is. The stats exist, some people (both men and women) are incredibly shitty and absolutely do attack people in the situations brought up here. It only takes a few seconds of Google-fu to bring up evidence of it.

If I had to park 30-50 feet from my house in the dark, I’d sprint the fuck to my door. Not only because whatever woodland creatures that may be waiting, but because maybe, one of the many people that hate/dislike me may be waiting. Nooooope.

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch 01/05/2016 at 14:15

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Or maybe she’s just really annoyed by people trying to work into their lifting routine.

^Projection

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:15

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JCPenney in GAINZVILLE son!

Hit day one back on after a full year off last night. Focusing on mobility for the next 6 months then going back to strength/powerlifting

Bytemite > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/05/2016 at 14:18

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Agreed. It is on the same level of stupidity as dropping that “women earn 77 cents per dollar a man makes”.

You read that and if you know elementary statistics, you say “Okay so?”

The public reads that and says oh my god! That means I make like 7 dollars per hour working at Walmart while my male coworker is making 10?!

No, because that number is just the gross income earned by all females in U.S. divided by the gross income earned by all males.

Is that statistically relevant in any way? No.

Is it fun as hell for feminists to throw around? Yes.

I am a feminist myself, I believe in equal rights for all. And if there is pay inequality in the same job, with alike qualified wage-earners, in the same market conditions, etc, and it is likely based on discrimination , then that needs to end. That needs to end now.

I have read studies which controlled for other factors and tried to narrow down causality to discrimination and the number was around .95 cents to a dollar. We need to bring that number up to 1.0. What we don’t need to do, is think that we need to bring .77 cents up to 1.0.

By the way, in some industries, women made more than men. The .95 cents/dollar is an average across all industries, with the finance industry being highly discriminating and bringing that average down.

Xyl0c41n3 > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:19

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I used to go to the gym late at night on purpose. The last gym I was a member of was a 24 hour place and it had a special women-only workout room that had cardio machines, and a smaller assortment of machine and free weights than the main gym.

There were a couple of reasons I went late at night:

1. Fewer people, so I never had to wait for equipment,

2. The few guys (primarily always guys) that DID work out that late (we’re talking between midnight - 3 a.m.) were always the same ones, always serious about just getting in their workouts, and were not creepy.

3. Those were the best hours available considering my then-work situation.

I never felt uncomfortable working out in the main room that late, either, versus the more private women-only section.

Bottom line, even though I had to walk to and from my car alone at night, I still felt safer going at those hours. And cops regularly did drive-bys, too. In fact, one cop would regularly park his cruiser in that lot waiting for late-night speeders.

Look, I see below there are comments saying it’s on us women for always existing in a heightened sense of fear that’s fueled by false information from an “if it bleeds, it leads” media mentality.

The thing is, we have reason to fear. Our fears are not unfounded. Bogeymen are real, and they come in the form of the NiceGuyTM. The guy who doesn’t know how to take “no” for an answer and thinks that gives him the right to get angry.

We have reason to fear when one in five women will be raped or sexually assaulted in her lifetime. That’s higher than the rate of getting breast cancer (1-in-8).

We have reason to fear when the likelihood of being raped or sexually assaulted DOUBLES if you’ve already been a victim before.

We have reason to fear when we are not believed by law enforcement, or in the courtroom on the RARE occasion a case actually goes to court.

And speaking of court, we have reason to fear when only one out of 100 rapists will EVER see even ONE DAY in jail for their crimes.

One. Day.

I am not a fearful woman. I proudly walk where I want, when I want. I have intervened to help other women (and men) I’ve seen who appeared to need assistance.

I am loud, brash and extremely confident.

And even then, I always keep my head on a swivel when I’m alone. I listen to my gut when it tells me that something about a man just ain’t right. I keep a mental tally of alternate routes I can use to get to my destination while driving. I know where police stations are. I look out for other women who may need help.

Creepy guys exist. And to the men here who say it’s all in our heads? I’d urge you to have some serious discussions with the women in your lives. I can guarantee you that not a single one will be able to say they have never encountered a creepy guy, or that they’ve never had a close call. Because we all have.

And Atlas, the only criticism I’d make of your post is referring to the gym employee as a girl. She’s a woman.

MuchWagon > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:19

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Either big empty too quiet building is scary (not uncommon) or she digs musclenerds.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Rainbow 01/05/2016 at 14:21

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You’re also still in high school in the suburbs, aren’t you? Yeah, being around that shit kind of made me close off sexually for a long time and kind of put women on a pedestal that I wouldn’t dare approach so as to avoid being “that guy.” Most of them are just hormone-charged and trying to out-man the other boys around them and full of shit. Don’t believe much of what they say, but call them on it unless you’re going to be completely outcast, but it sounds like you don’t want to be around those people anyway... Don’t let them bother or affect you. Do you.

Party-vi > For Sweden 01/05/2016 at 14:21

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Man, cool guys never say shit like that.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Bytemite 01/05/2016 at 14:23

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Yep, I’m with you. It’s getting better as the olds leave, though. In some fields, particularly medical, women are actually often earning more than their mail counterparts.

For Sweden > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:23

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Maybe Cool Guy is the wrong term. Perhaps Evolved Guy. I even have a scarf.

Bytemite > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/05/2016 at 14:24

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No surprise there. More demand for women in in-demand fields.

Party-vi > For Sweden 01/05/2016 at 14:25

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If you failed previously to mention your scarf and how it makes you feel, then you are not an evolved man.

McMike > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:27

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“There are no greater threat to women”

Xyl0c41n3 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/05/2016 at 14:27

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What’s wrong with being a cashier?

For Sweden > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:28

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:(

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:28

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Louis C K said it so well...

Ash78, voting early and often > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:30

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I just signed up for Instagram so I could to try out my new filter on you:

Party-vi > For Sweden 01/05/2016 at 14:32

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Stapleface > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:33

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It’s sad that she doesn't feel safe, but unfortunately that's what society has become. I think though if I was in the gym, I might not even realize someone at the front desk was being attacked, because I'll be zoned out listening to something. I guess it's a good thing my gym never closes and there's always at least 10-15 people there, not including the minimum of two people that run the front desk.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > For Sweden 01/05/2016 at 14:40

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You were no longer cool guy once I added shiny spandex pants to my attire. Scarves have been there forever.

BorkBorkBjork > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 14:41

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Most women are just scaredy-cats, just kind of the way it is. My wife is terrified of everything, she even had nightmares after watching Patriot Games. That’s right, she honestly feared that IRA terrorists would attack our house in the middle of the night.

Xyl0c41n3 > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:52

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Maybe a heads-up on this guy: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/you-probably-s…

Party-vi > Xyl0c41n3 01/05/2016 at 14:58

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We are unfortunately allowed to let all walks comment here within reason, which includes people that use the term “confirmation bias” incorrectly.

Xyl0c41n3 > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 15:05

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Eh. That’s why I said it was a maybe heads-up. He holds an interesting view on women, it would appear.

And I thought part of the don’t be a dick be excellent to each other mentality was not bashing other kinjas, specifically all the stereotypes certain factions of Oppo love to make about Jezebel and its readers?

Because Jez bashing is back all over the comments on this post. AggregateDemand is just one of the people doing it: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/men-teach-wome…

smobgirl > Snuze: Needs another Swede 01/05/2016 at 15:07

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I’ve been assaulted twice, one of which involved roofies and I have no idea the extent of what happened. I've only told one person, and no one I've dated knows about either. I knew both guys. It takes someone much stronger than me to go public about something like that, even though the roofie guy should have been fired for it. I just couldn't do it. It was easier to be the one who left and shoved the encounters under the rug.

Party-vi > Xyl0c41n3 01/05/2016 at 15:12

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Jez bashing is a no go here, as I pointed out on another post.

BigBlock440 > Mercedes Streeter 01/05/2016 at 15:15

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Something about being alone and with the dark, your mind wanders. He said he’s in an incredibly safe area, I’m in an incredibly safe area, there absolutely no danger or reason to think there is, but here’s several examples of people thinking there is. That’s no reason to be disappointed in the entire male gender. I hear things at night, a creak from the house shifting a little with temperature changes, a deck board popping off in the extreme cold, etc. and my mind also wanders, too much monster movies. My wife even admitted to looking up under every single episode after watching a season or two of Falling Skies . Thoughts that don’t really even cross your mind when there’s another person around because they’re dumb thoughts to have. But I’m not going to say I’m disappointed in an entire alien species because my wife looks under bridges, or that graboids should be ashamed of themselves when I feel the need to scope out rock croppings and keep to harder packed surfaces.

Another example is with another member’s post just today about nothing being creepier than an empty campground. There’s a comfort in numbers, and silence sometime lets you think all sorts of irrational thoughts.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Mercedes Streeter 01/05/2016 at 15:19

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we live in a predatory society

Now there’s a truth. something something political rant results of capitalism rant rant profit at all costs something something justification for everything that gets you what you want because thats how successful people succeed.

I’m a white, middle-class, heterosexual, Christian (background, not practicing) male so I guess you can take that however you want.

People suck.

I hate people.

except for the ones who don’t suck.

wiffleballtony > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 15:28

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I don’t think it’s as much of every man is a potential creep as much as its always better to have some additional security. My wife sometimes carries a pistol but it’s not because she is afraid every moment, it’s just nice to have contingencies.

Mercedes Streeter > BigBlock440 01/05/2016 at 15:45

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I hear ya there, and I so agree with you as well. :)

But unfortunately, that doesn’t discount how shitty society still is...and how quickly even safe neighbourhoods can spiral into violence. While the gym lady’s scary response is probably unwarranted, I wouldn’t say it’s too irrational in general to not want to travel alone in the dark. I wish we could live in a way that we wouldn’t have to worry though.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 16:04

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Does this mean I should stop sitting in dark corners and staring at women from under my hoody?

BigBlock440 > BigBlock440 01/05/2016 at 16:06

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*Every single overpass after watching falling skies, because that’s where the aliens sleep.

StingrayJake > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 16:08

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Everybody is terrible. We’re all doomed. Life is pointless.

But hey, I’ve lost 30 pounds since July!

Party-vi > StingrayJake 01/05/2016 at 16:09

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REJOICE!!!

Mercedes Streeter > Bytemite 01/05/2016 at 16:16

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Woo hoo!!! Thank you for pointing this out. As MUCH as I hate to say it, a lot of those statistics about what women earn completely and entirely ignore the industry. For example: In some industries, women typically (not in all cases, but enough to skew the numbers) take the lower paying positions than their male counterparts. So then when you tally up the totals, it looks like woah, the men are making so much more.

Thankfully, a lot of more accurate studies are digging deeper to see if the pay differences are based on discrimination or not. Like, is a woman in the same position as a man making less when she has the exact same circumstances he does? Or is the employer forcing women to take lower positions? etc.

Turns out, that awful crap is still happening...but thankfully it does seem to be getting forced out of society.

I kinda like the olds of Feminism hanging around, they seem to keep things holding together. Lots of people getting themselves involved in Feminism today are getting caught up in the radical stuff, and that’s a darn shame.

Mercedes Streeter > Xyl0c41n3 01/05/2016 at 16:20

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^^This! A Costco cashier makes $3/hr more than I do...and the position I’m currently working in requests for me to be enrolled in college or have an Assoc. degree.

Heck, even a cashier at Aldi puts my wages to shame.

RealityRadio > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 17:00

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The problem is not a dangerous male society, but feminist fear mongering. Because fear of men strengthens their world view, every girl is taught to be afraid of strangers. Most acts of violence happen in families.

Rainbow > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/05/2016 at 17:08

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Actually, I’m out of school at the moment. Would be a junior in college, but I don’t want to talk about that.

But yeah, I’m in the suburbs of the Bible Belt.... So my area is probably way worse than everywhere else.

WiscoProud > Rainbow 01/05/2016 at 17:09

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I had a stalker in college, who wouldn’t bother approaching until I was drunk and more “willing”. Not to mention the time she let herself into my house. Women can be creepy too, but men tend to be more aggressive, and therefore more dangerous about it. Stupid testosterone.

I will say the amount of “rapey” guys is a minimum. If it isn’t in your group of friends, you need a new group of friends. I will go further in that if a guy hits on a girl, it is not inherently "creepy" or "rapey".

Rainbow > WiscoProud 01/05/2016 at 17:12

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They can be, sure, but they’re usually aware of it. And people are quick to call them out on it if they really don’t realize. With men, it’s usually just “boys will be boys” and nobody makes an effort to stop them.

WiscoProud > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/05/2016 at 17:16

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Men and women in high school are trying to figure out their place in the world, and when combined with higher hormones, tend to be louder and more aggressive than they normally would be. They’re also learning what is and isn’t appropriate in dealing with a potential mate. No one is born knowing how to date someone else. People learn through trial and error. That’s not an excuse for anyone who gets physical, but it give some insight on why “good” people might do inappropriate things.

The people who get past their early 20s while still acting like they’re in high school should be avoided like the plague.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Rainbow 01/05/2016 at 17:17

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Then make an effort. Say, “hey, that’s kind of sexist.”

WiscoProud > Mercedes Streeter 01/05/2016 at 17:24

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I have a theory that most of the bullying and hatred we encounter are due to two things:

1. I think despite our best efforts humans naturally form hierarchies in society. Unfortunately, that means jockeying for position on the metaphorical totem pole. People who feel like their at the bottom look for and attack perceived weaknesses in others. Likewise they may attempt to make themselves look more powerful, through any manner of ways including being gun nuts, driving bro dozers, being gym rats, etc. People who are comfortable with their station in life tend to be more accepting of others.

2. We’re afraid of what’s different. This was very useful for most of human history. Those who don’t look or act like us are potentially dangerous. Being modern people, we can overcome much of this through rational thought, but that nagging feeling often remains. I don’t think this one is going away until we become a more homogenized society, unfortunately.

Mercedes Streeter > WiscoProud 01/05/2016 at 17:27

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I have to agree on all accounts!!! And sadly, our culture (at least in America) continues to enable both of those instead of trying to turn people off from it. :(

WiscoProud > Rainbow 01/05/2016 at 17:35

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I think that oversimplifies it. I know no one told this girl it was creepy. I will say there is still a cultural expectation that the men will be the aggressive partner, and the woman will demure before eventually accepting. This results in more guys being aggressive in hitting on women, particularly when they’re young. As they age they tend to learn what works and how to read cues better. I had no freaking idea at 18.

WiscoProud > Mercedes Streeter 01/05/2016 at 17:40

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I think we can do better, but due to the biological programming aspect, its a slow moving ship. That's not saying I'm all nature over nuture, but to ignore the nature aspect is to underestimate the issues. Due to sexual dimorphism and the skewed nature of testosterone between men and women, I don't think the danger will ever completely go away, we can just try to minimize it.

Textured Soy Protein > Xyl0c41n3 01/05/2016 at 17:47

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Well hey, I’m glad that’s the only criticism.

I understand that the desire to use “woman” rather than “girl” is mostly because there are way too many stupid chauvinistic articles like this talking about the supposed differences between women and girls that have nothing to do with age.

I can assure you I did not mean to diminish her in any way by calling her a girl, and only used the word “girl” as shorthand for “female human under the age of 30.”

More than one woman in my life is a sexual assault victim. I won’t bother with the specifics. But I know firsthand how that can affect someone.

NJAnon > Textured Soy Protein 01/05/2016 at 19:43

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Paranoid much? *Specifically in reference to the girl working at the counter at your gym Atlas* You could be mugged by anyone any time of the day inside or outside. That’s a “her” problem, not a “every guy turns creepy at 10:05pm near gyms”.

One of the personal trainers at my gym doesn’t give a %$&(! if her classes finish afternoon or nighttime. And she shouldn’t. Some creep approaches, she’d do her (paraphrasing) “wonder-woman s***” and press on.

Jane, you ignorant slut. > Snuze: Needs another Swede 01/05/2016 at 20:59

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I’ve been raped. My parents and brothers don’t know.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/06/2016 at 09:02

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Thanks for the clarification. Frankly I wasn’t sure what the exact statistic was, but that’s the number that was sticking out in my brain.

And I agree with you, using junk data tends to undermine your position, even if it is a serious issue and is a problem.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2016 at 09:20

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Frankly, I was just riffing outloud (well, in text) some thoughts that went through my head after reading the initial post. It was just an expression of how statistics impact a personal life. It’s easy to dismiss a number, but when you think in the context of “1 in 5” (and I’m not sure where I got 1 in 3 from) and think about 5 women you know and realize Ok, wow, that’s likely happened to one of them, it’s kind of an ah-ha moment. And I’m not accusing anyone of not telling me anything, or expecting I should be told anything, again, it’s just the realization that, statistically speaking this could have happened to someone close to me and I don’t even know it.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > smobgirl 01/06/2016 at 09:32

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I’m not sure what I can say at this point that wouldn’t sound like a platitude, but I’m sorry. It bothers me that this is happening, that society just seems to accept it, and that you and that an overwhelming majority of the people that have been assaulted or raped feel like they can come forward, for any reason.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Jane, you ignorant slut. 01/06/2016 at 09:34

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I’m sorry. As I mentioned to someone else in another comment, when confronted with something like that, I don’t even know what else to say.

Xyl0c41n3 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 01/06/2016 at 09:47

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I apologize for my harshness.

Though, I would like to add something that struck even me as an ah-ha moment.

Think about this: if one in five women will be the victim of a rape or a sexual assault in her lifetime, and the large majority of those crimes are committed by a person known to the woman, then get this: it IS likely you know a rape/sexual assault victim. But what else? It’s ALSO likely that you know someone who has committed rape/sexual assault, too.

Kind of a hard pill to swallow, isn’t it? Thinking that a guy you know, maybe even love, could have done something like that? Yet, it’s the truth.

Xyl0c41n3 > smobgirl 01/06/2016 at 09:48

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It takes someone much stronger than me to go public about something like that...

You ARE that someone much stronger. Thank you, smobgirl, for sharing your story. You are awesome.

Xyl0c41n3 > Jane, you ignorant slut. 01/06/2016 at 09:49

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Just wanted to clarify I starred that to thank you for sharing your story.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2016 at 09:55

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Not necessarily. I remember reading somewhere (sorry, would confirm but I don’t feel like tracking it down right now) that typically sexual predators assault an average of six women in their lifetime. Assuming that and that the one in five stat is true, that narrows it down to roughly 1 in 30 men.

Xyl0c41n3 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/06/2016 at 10:07

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I can think of 30 men I know.

My point was, if you know a rape victim, you do likely know a rapist.

Rapes don’t occur in a vacuum.

I wasn’t equating that if one in five/six women are victims of rape then that means one in five/six men are rapists.

Like I said, I can think of 30 men I know with little effort. I’m sure you can, too. People, like Snuze above, who become a little shocked when they really realize what the victim statistic means in their own lives rarely think about the corollary to that statistic: that it’s also VERY LIKELY that they know a person who has committed such a crime.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2016 at 11:42

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Ahh, gotcha. Yeah, I do know multiple victims, and knew one guy who assaulted someone (obsiously not a friend and absolutely cut off). It’s definitely more commonplace than many people realize.

Rico > Textured Soy Protein 01/06/2016 at 14:39

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Got to say I get where she’s coming from. Majority of dudes are THIRSTY AF, stuff like social media gives them an outlet to be even more thirsty thus empowering them even more. The way I’ve always looked at it was look at the situation if you were in the other person’s shoes, girls just like guys have a right to just be left alone and some people (Guys) don’t get that or get angry because their pride or ego is bruised. Maybe they just didn’t get enough hugs growing up!

Textured Soy Protein > Rico 01/06/2016 at 17:14

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Oh, I totally get where she’s coming from. Hell, some of the comments in this post blaming her being scared on too much media attention on the issue, or women are just paranoid, or whatever else, are enough to show why she should feel that way.

Textured Soy Protein > NJAnon 01/06/2016 at 17:33

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This girl’s not a trainer, she just works at the desk. Even if she were, plenty of out-of-shape men can overpower plenty of very-in-shape but smaller women. Often it’s too much of a size mismatch to overcome.

So sure, it’s probably unlikely that some creepo is going to walk in and start some shit, but she’s not entirely out in left field for worrying about it.

Textured Soy Protein > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/06/2016 at 17:38

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Well hey, my arms are mildly impressive .

But on a serious note, I’m not quite sure that’s how empathy for others is supposed to work.

Textured Soy Protein > gin-san - shitpost specialist 01/06/2016 at 18:02

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I dunno, I think there’s a basis in reality for why so many women feel, if not necessarily unsafe, but feel the need to be vigilant.

When I was talking to my gf about this, she said back when she lived in places where she had to use laundromats, she hated going to laundromats because there were always weird dudes making gaga eyes at her. Like one time she was in this laundromat with just one other dude and he kept looking her up and down and she got up the nerve to yell at him “WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT???”

I know that I’m certainly guilty of when I’m walking thru a store, I instinctively notice attractive women, and have to stop myself from checking them out. I’m sure it’s happened where before I’ve even realized what I’m doing, somebody sees me looking in their direction. Hell, the gym girl, if I’m running on the elliptical and she walks in front of me in some tights and bends down to clean a treadmill, I’m all reminding myself EYES FRONT LOOK STRAIGHT AHEAD. Hey maybe the reason I make her feel safe is she knows she can bend over in front of me and I try my damnedest to not stare at her ass!

So you gotta figure, even if dudes aren’t being straight-up creeps, we all have those kinds of impulses in one way or the other, and not everybody’s cognizant of them or trying to stop themselves. Now think about how many guys the average woman encounters throughout her day, and if a whole bunch of them keep looking at her body, over and over again, it’s pretty easy for her to get sick of that. Even if there’s no real threat, that’s gotta get annoying.

And thanks about the shoes!

Textured Soy Protein > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet 01/06/2016 at 18:02

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Haha thanks man, I’m very happy with the progress I’ve made over the past year. I’ve dropped another maybe 4-7 lbs or so since I took that photo? Can’t remember my exact weight on that day.

Textured Soy Protein > MuchWagon 01/06/2016 at 18:04

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Even if she likes musclenerds, I’ve definitely mentioned during our assorted smalltalk that I live with my gf.